Nov 28, 2013

Black Sabbath vs. Led Zeppelin: Who Needs Football on Thanksgiving When You Have This Matchup?

Every now and then metal dudes and dudettes toss around one of the great, unanswerable questions that has vexed metal scholars for decades.  No, not "Who's gonna go to the store for more beer?" but the question of which band was heavier, Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin. Heavy metal would not exist without Black Sabbath, but Led Zeppelin also had a lot to do with how heavy music took hold in pop culture.  Led Zeppelin was one of the biggest rock bands of all time.  There are but a few bands I can think of that put "big" into perspective like them.  However, the relatively recent acceptance of metal into pop culture has cemented Black Sabbath as one of the most important bands in the evolution of all of rock's sub genres.  Black Sabbath's fans are just as fanatical now as they were forty years ago.  Both bands affected the trajectory of heavy music as much as any other band I can think of, and both had a vibe that freaked the hell out of people who were not fans of their music.  I'm not sure that I can really answer this question in a way that will satisfy everyone, but I can give it a shot.  This is probably a volatile topic for a lot of people, so I'll try to be careful.

Let me start by clearing the air about something that has bothered me for years.  One day I'll have a post that settles whether or not certain bands are truly "metal" because people wantonly throw hard rock bands into the metal category all of the time.  Many bands seem like they should be considered metal on the surface because of the people who listen to them and because their tee shirts are black, but that isn't the way to gauge what is or isn't metal.  You have to figure that one out by asking me.  So here it is... neither Black Sabbath, nor Led Zeppelin are metal.  Period.  Black Sabbath come closer to being metal but both bands are hard rock, pure and simple.  Both bands also happen to be heavier than most metal bands.  There is a big difference between being "heavy" and being aggressive or mean. Lots of people mistake mean for heavy.  It's an honest mistake.  It's a more honest mistake than claiming that speed makes a band heavy.  That is a sign of complete ignorance.  Speed usually prevents a band from being heavy.  "Heavy" is as much conceptual as it is stylistic, and that is the first hint at how I will eventually answer the Black Sabbath versus Led Zeppelin question for all of you curious, metal scholars.

Metal owes more to Black Sabbath than Led Zeppelin.  That is indisputable.  Black Sabbath represented darkness more consistently than Led Zeppelin.  They were the more fatalistic of the two bands and that is one of the common threads throughout almost all metal.  Led Zeppelin were certainly dark themselves, but they were embraced more openly by pop culture at the time than Black Sabbath.  There have been a lot more bands who wanted to make it big by trying to sound like Led Zeppelin, while Black Sabbath wannabees have tended to stay below the radar.  Being a fan of the genre, I have heard countless Sabbath imitations.  I think that part of the reason so many metal kids have tried to sound like Black Sabbath is in no small measure because Sabbath's sound and writing style are much more attainable than Led Zeppelin's.  Black Sabbath had a very primitive style that turned heads in part because they filled a void in popular music.  Bands that stay at the low end of the guitar neck and play really loud are a dime a dozen now, but in the early 1970's the approach was something new.  I have written before that Black Sabbath invented "heavy metal" with the first note of their debut album.  I do wonder what kind of impact they would have made had the song "Black Sabbath" not been on that album.  It took me years to finally be able to listen to that album in its entirety, but that track is unparalleled in its impact on heavy music. 

When Led Zeppelin were firing on all cylinders they created things that were bigger than life. Like The Beatles, they were greater than the sum of their parts.  They did not always produce heavy songs in the sense that they were full of low chords and plodding rhythms, but they created the kinds of places that no other band could recreate.  Say what you will of Robert Plant's self absorbed wailing, but he could create a mood with the very best of them. In fact, he may be the very best of them when it comes to sexing up a song.  He and Jimi Hendrix had sex appeal dripping off of them, but Hendrix was able to pull of the ridiculous clothes far better than Robert Plant.  That may be because Jimi Hendrix was smart enough to never put on a woman's blouse for a live performance film ( really, Robert... a blouse? ), but be that as it may they both had women and men aflutter.  That doesn't make your band heavy, but it does speak to the fact that Led Zeppelin were bona fide rock gods.  And the fact that they achieved that status by writing truly interesting and provocative music makes their case even more compelling.

Both Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin had their fair share of misses ranging from "less than great" to "Dear God, will you skip to another song?!?!"  Black Sabbath seemed to get better as they went along.  Their first record is a collection of long winded garage rock songs that does create its own thing, but that 'thing' never interested me when I was younger.  I preferred 'Vol. 4' and 'Sabbath Bloody Sabbath' when I was in high school.  There were some individual tracks off of their second and third albums that I liked a lot, but they became more creative later.  Led Zeppelin had quite the opposite evolution.  I actually believe that Led Zeppelin's first album is about as solid as any band's first offering could be.  It is both brooding and energetic in a way that most bands can't achieve until they have been around for awhile.  Their first four records have most of their best material, and once you get past that the pickings become very, very slim.  Led Zeppelin's music was in a constant state of evolution, and almost by definition that means that there will be some pure crap recorded as one phase spills into another.  Bad Led Zeppelin is so bad it's insulting.  Black Sabbath had four records under their belts before they began to branch out, and their branching out was also marred with less than perfect tracks.  I guess drugs were stronger back then.  That's the only way I can imagine thinking songs like Sabbath's "Am I Going Insane" or  Led Zeppelin's "Boogie with Stu" should be on any album.  In my opinion, Sabbath's most consistent album with Ozzy Osbourne is their last one, though the there are far fewer people in that camp with me than there are who get fired up by their more famous albums.  

In my opinion, Black Sabbath was more one dimensional than Led Zeppelin.  It was a great dimension though!  I was ambivalent towards Led Zeppelin until I had been out of school for a few years.  I never owned any of their records because you could never escape them on the radio or in the smoking court at school anyway.  I didn't need to buy any of their albums because everyone else played them all the time.  Once I did begin to check them out I realized how much great music they put out.  You have to wade through some crap to get to it all, but it's well worth the effort.  Most of Black Sabbath's more impactful songs are well known, but there are a handful on their later records with Ozzy Osbourne that are worth checking out.  I think that Sabbath's most creative track, and one of their darkest songs is "Megalomania" on 'Sabatoge'.  When they thought out of their own box they showed a surprising capacity to create new things for a band who let the original impact of their introduction to the music world carry them through the first several years of their career.  Led Zeppelin were never afraid to experiment.  Though that led them astray often in later years, they were able to use that pioneering mindset to create places that no one has ever come close to replicating.

Black Sabbath were able to turn heads with their primal darkness.  While Geezer Butler is one of my favorite bass players, the rest of the band were not necessarily 'great' musicians. You don't have to be a great musician to create great music.  That is something that bands prove every day.  But Black Sabbath really overachieved for what they were capable of doing as individuals.  Ozzy Osbourne has one of the most distinctive voices for a guy who really couldn't sing if his life depended upon it.  He pulled it off and separated himself from the rest of the pack by embracing his own unique qualities.  Tony Iommi has always been able to write heavy riffs, but you only need to hear one lead to realize he was never all that good. Bill Ward was a better drummer than their records led us to believe, but his lack of finesse was more visible than the rest of the band's limitations.  Black Sabbath capitalized on the purity of knuckle dragging at its best.  Celtic Frost have made it an art form, but Sabbath paved the way for all musicians who loved dark music more than actually practicing their instrument to follow their dreams.

Led Zeppelin were very different from Black Sabbath in that finesse and dynamics were the tools they used to create their sound.  Their best music was made when vocals and music perfectly complimented the other.  I cannot think of another band that was able to create that kind of synergy as often as Led Zeppelin.  John Bonham is a drumming icon for a damned good reason.  Finesse oozed out of his pores ( messy, but not a bad problem to have ) and his drum sound was always impeccable.  After years of triggered drums, especially in metal, it is a real treat to hear how drums are 'supposed' to sound.  John Paul Jones was an underrated bass player who just happened to play a pretty mean Hammond organ as well, which really added to the bigger-than-life feel of much of their music.  Jimmy Page was a strange guitarist.  His leads were almost always awful but his chord vocabulary was the well that Led Zeppelin were able to go back to for their entire existence.  You have to close your eyes to be able to take their live videos seriously.  Between Robert Plant's blouses and Jimmy Page's argyle sweater vests and poet shirts you might think a thrift store had exploded on stage.  Drugs, man...  I'm telling you, they had to be good back then!  Robert Plant could wear whatever he wanted as long as he still nailed it live.  He wandered off into ridiculous territory with his live ad-libs.  It makes me think that they had to work hard to reel him in in the studio, but his skills were undeniable.

So what does all of this mean?  Who kicked whose ass, as pop culture would demand to know these days?  Who was made the other's "bitch"?  I think it boils down to what it is in music that moves each of us.  I have no doubt that had Led Zeppelin stayed together they would have written some of the worst songs ever, but the music they wrote that mattered is unparalleled in rock.  Black Sabbath can lay claim to their own unique style of music helping create the birth of metal, but their vibe is not mysterious.  You can see how they put everything together.  Led Zeppelin wrote songs that no one else could have.  They created something bigger than life with their music that, at its best, was both dark and enigmatic. Monica and I have playlist of relatively obscure ( meaning not the songs you hear on the radio ) Led Zeppelin songs that is like a eighty minute journey to a world far away from this one.  I never put on any of the Ozzy Osbourne Black Sabbath cd's we have except 'Never Say Die'.  There just isn't enough in Black Sabbath's music to keep me engaged almost thirty years after high school.  At least not until Ronnie James Dio joined the band, but this post is about the "classic" version of Black Sabbath versus Led Zeppelin.  I love Black Sabbath for what they did that has inspired so many musicians to play metal, but it's Led Zeppelin whose music has stood the test of time with me.  I'll take their enigmatic, bigger than life masterpieces any day over Black Sabbath and therefore, I crown them the "Kings of Heavy" in this head to head competition.

Black Sabbath at their best:

"Black Sabbath" - from the album 'Black Sabbath'
"War Pigs", "Planet Caravan", "Fairies Wear Boots" - from the album 'Paranoid'
"Lord of This World", "Into the Void" - from the album 'Masters of Reality'
"Wheels of Confusion", "Tomorrow's Dream", "Supernaut", "Under the Sun" - from 'Vol. 4'
"Sabbath Bloody Sabbath", "A National Acrobat" - from "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath"
"Hole in the Sky", "Symptom of the Universe", "Megalomania" - from 'Sabatoge'
"Junior's Eyes", "Hard Road" - from 'Never Say Die'

Led Zeppelin at their best:

"How Many More Times", "Your Time Is Gonna Come", "Dazed and Confused" - debut album
"What Is and What Shouldn't Be", "Ramble On" - from the album Led Zeppelin II
"Friends", "Out on the Tiles", "That's the Way" - from the album Led Zeppelin III
"Four Sticks", "When the Levee Breaks" - from the album Led Zeppelin IV, or "Zoso"
"The Rain Song", "No Quarter" - from the album "Houses of the Holy"
"Kashmir", "In the Light", "Ten Years Gone" - from the album 'Physical Graffiti'


  1. Sound arguments and logic regarding both bands and the various genres they impact. So agree on later Sabbath albums vs. early; "Sabotage" and "Never Say Die" rarely get the attention they deserve. Kudos as well for expounding upon the de-evolution of the oddly sacrosanct Zeppelin, something I've argued for years. Another solid post that was a pleasure to read, glad I discovered this blog.

    1. And to whom should I write the check? Thanks, Anonymous! You have to be able to criticize your bands in order to figure out the right parts to rip off! Just imagine if someone had piped up and said "Hey, Zepp-dudes... let's drop the reggae vibe and stick to the heavier stuff." They may have drowned that person in one of the moats outside of any of their castles, but it may have sparked a conversation about direction and being able to sleep at night. We'll never know.

    2. Interesting reply- Lets not forget that both bands released an album, and sometimes two a year for their entire musical careers. They were basically documenting their evolution as bands/musicians for all the world to see and hear. I know these criticism's are made in good faith but the making of albums back then was a snapshot of the bands development and there will always be hit and misses. Many more hits than misses in my opinion for both. Amazing considering both bands had no template or model to fall back on, just their own creativity. I feel that Zeppelin had just run its course creatively and had not "de-evolved" and were certainly not "oddly sacrosanct".

    3. Whether one calls Led Zeppelin's decision to stop writing epic songs with moody overtones and replace them with tedious reggae/caribbean inspired crap a "de-evolution" or you describe the phenomenon as the band having "run its course creatively", I'm pretty sure Anonymous 1 and Anonymous 2 are talking about the same thing. Led Zeppelin stopped writing great music well before John Bonham died. As far as them being "sacrosanct" goes, you would have been excommunicated from the smoking court at my school for daring to criticize the band! You probably would have gotten your ass beaten in the parking lot, too! The smoking court was where everyone talked about how drunk they planned to get the next weekend, made up sexual conquests to brag about, and talked about how awesome Led Zeppelin was. It was just assumed that they were the top of whatever your high school stoner Rock Totem Pole was. I remember a guy came dangerously close to getting beaten up once for suggesting that AC/DC were homosexuals. Criticizing Led Zeppelin would have been worse... much worse. No doubt Confessor and Loincloth are the bands high school kids fight over these days.

  2. Led Zeppelin is the rock´s way but Black Sabbath is the crystalline fountain, for me it´s rock but more progressive than Led Zeppelin, the proto-metal, if you want... Greetins for you, Stephen: CONFESSOR´s "Condemned" and FLY MACHINE´s "Come Metamorphosis" are for me two of the more greats albums of the Metal and Rock´s history, respectively...

  3. Absolutely "proto-metal"! I think that the people whose heads were turned by Black Sabbath were the ones who eventually forged metal, but Sabbath was that first big spark. Sabbath, the '... one band to bind them all' gave a lot of people a vague direction to channel their creativity. Had it been a different band to light that spark, there is a very good chance that metal would be a little different even now. As for Confessor vs Fly Machine... now THAT would be the Mother of All Match Ups! You are too kind, or really sarcastic. Either way, I'm impressed. Seriously, thanks!

  4. I'm not really qualified to comment...I would only be aware of the "hits" when it comes to these two. I do feel like I'm missing out on something though, if that makes anyone feel better : )
    From the outside, Sabbath seem the more metal, but then there's John Bonhams drumming...which I like a lot. As I'm not qualified to answer who's heavier, I will leave you with this - CONFESSOR RULE!!! : )

    1. Hey, Keith! Good to hear from you again! Check out the songs I listed for Sabbath and Zeppelin at the end of the post. You may know more of their music than you think. I consider Led Zeppelin to be "heavier" because what they did was so much more grandiose than Black Sabbath. Sabbath never had what it took to create music like that. It's like comparing a Magritte to a Dali. Magritte did one thing really well, but Dali put so much more into his work, could do much more and was never stiff like Magritte. You're right though, neither could ever live up to Confessor's standard of excellence! In the art world, we would be the collection of barely interesting finger paintings your five year old put up on the fridge, only we were never cute. Chime in anytime, Keith. You're always welcome here!


  5. I think Zeppelin is more varied but Sabbath is obviously the Masters of hardrock and early metal. Zepp was just as much blues/folk as hard rock, while Sabbath was probably 80% hard rock so they masterd that newer genre and paved the way for 80'
    s thrash metal bands. These bands almost without exception cite Sabbath as an influence.

  6. I love both bands, Zep is my favorite of all time with Sabbath right behind them. But don't kid yourselves about who the real Godfathers of metal are. Iommi, Blackmore, Schenker, Van Halen, and whoever else you want to consider as being a heavy rock/heavy metal guitarist all cite Jimmy Page as showing them how it was supposed to be done. Jimmy Page set the template for metal and punk through his attitude and ferocity as a player. I'm not saying that Page and Zep are metal because they aren't (neither is Sab), but I am saying that they were literally the first to show that kind of power in their playing. And btw, to leave off the Presence album tracks "Achilles Last Stand", For Your Life, Nobody's Fault But Mine, etc from the greatest Zep tracks is just plain foolish. Achilles Last Stand is basically the song that Iron Maiden used to make an entire career from. Great topic guys

    1. The side of Led Zeppelin that I like is their dark, epic side. Their vaguely Carribean side and their straight rock side do almost nothing for me whatsoever. I can appreciate the prog qualifications in the songs you mentioned, and I can even appreciate that they would have been eye openers for someone in their teens but they don't have any girth. It isn't that they are bad, they just don't touch any of the things about them that I really like except a certain freedom in song writing. The Zep I like, I love... the rest has good points and bad points. Their dark side is sooooo untouchable that I feel like I'm wasting my time listening to anything else.

  7. This answer is simple. Neither Zep or Sab are metal. Period. They are both directly responsible for the creation of the genre, though. So that point is settled. Now for the brass tacks of this matter. Who influenced who? And this is where Zep sets themselves apart from Sabbath. Just look at the past comments of Tony Iommi, Ozzy Osbourne, Bill Ward, and Geezer Butler. Or watch the Youtube interviews of Richie Blackmore from Deep Purple. Ask Dave Mustaine from Megadeth, or Zakk Wylde. Check in with the members of Iron Maiden. Poke Eddie Van Halen in the ribs and ask him. See what the members of Rush say. Or Aerosmith. Or Kiss. Or Michael Schenker. They will all say the same thing about Zeppelin, that they saw how and what could be done with rock music to turn it into something so heavy and new. Specifically Jimmy Page and John Bonham, those two had the metal/punk attitude and ferocity that had never been seen before. Therefore, the blueprints for the structure are solely owned by Zeppelin. The first actual house built from those blueprints belongs to Sabbath. All the rest just don't matter in regards to being the originators. Great discussion guys, even though I know this blog post is old as hell

    1. Sabbath built a relatively simple house, full of evil and even vaguely prog at times. Led Zeppelin built an elegant mansion with lots of unnecessary rooms, but with enough artistry to keep people gawking for the rest of time. No doubt rock aficionados will prefer Led Zeppelin, but I have been surprised that an audience of theoretically die-hard metal fans have thrown their overwhelming support to them as well when you consider that metal musicians so often cite Black Sabbath as the Reason for the Season.